You are here: Home / Archives for Christianity

Reflecting on Evan's Tweet: What do you find to be the best way to engage someone who speaks negatively about the emerging church …

January 15, 2009 by 1 Comment

Earlier today, Evan (author of “Why I’m Not Emergent”) tweeted “What do you find to be the best way to engage someone who speaks negatively about the emerging church and assumes you agree?”  The last part of it is funny to me because it has happened a bunch of times but I want to discuss the first part. 

Here’s what I found.  Some people think the emergent church is:

  •  the work of the devil.
  •  equated with relativism.
  •  “liberalism repackaged”.
  •  a fancy way of saying that you’re “open minded” and welcome you to their world.
  •  dangerous or misplaced but still they are interested and curious and somewhat cautious about it.

To those that subscribe to the first 3, it depends how I am feeling that day.  For me, I do not need to convert anyone to emergent-type thinking.  I don’t think there is much to gain.  When some say that they find it to be “unbiblical”, I’ll generally enter into conversation and ask: What have you heard, what have you read, why do you say this …  I may or may not continue depending on that answer.

But let’s assume that you are in a great conversation with a wonderful Christ-follower.  Their knowledge of emerging church is what they heard from someone who read DA Carson’s book three years ago, a critique or two from their Bible-believing pulpit, and the attacks on Brian McLaren and Tony Jones they Googled eight months ago.  But they really are interested because they loved the title of Doug Pagit’s book A Christianity Worth Believing. 

Generally, I begin by explaining that according to the EV website and the many lectures I’ve heard, that is usually described as a “friendship” or a “conversation”.  Friendships don’t have doctrinal statements and healthy ones don’t have agendas.  They can have passion, debate, even good German beer, but they also have love.  

If we’re still friends, I offer to  forward them Scot McKnight’s 5 Streams of the Emerging Church.  In the good old days before 2008, I had recommended Generous Orthodoxy but now I recommend New Christians and if they’re rich (aka Presbyterian), then I tell them to buy both.  (Still need to read A Christianity Worth Believing but like, everyone I love the title).  After that, the most helpful book I read was Leslie Newbigin’s Proper Confidence.  Thank you John Franke and yes, the second most helpful was the Character of Theology … after it was explained in class … by Jay, Evan, Jon, Wendy …  Don’t mnd me, it’s a blog, I’m just having fun here.)

In the actual conversation I try to make these distinctions:

Postmodernism cannot be simply equated to relativism (although it contains it).  Postmodernism is better understood as an age as opposed to merely a philosophy.  Further, it is a response to modernism that seeks to combine the best of the pre-modern world (also known as the ancient world) and the modern world (as much good came out of it but it became incomplete when it lost its imagination and appreciation of mystery).

Regarding the “liberalism repackaged” line, among the many reasons (which some of them do not help) here is another.  It’s been my experience that when a couple of “conservatives” discover that they are seated at a table with those they perceive to be “liberals”,  their almost immediate response is to get up and leave the table.  If their attempts at “real conversion” are unsuccessful, the eventual response is to abandon the conversation with the satisfaction of having known a seed of truth was planted in the jungle of “heresy” (which is a word that should be held with the same reverence as the F-bomb).  I find myself not being socially liberal enough for some, and not conservative enough for others, but I’ve been very welcomed in this friendship.

That said, it’s ok to disagree in peace and love.  One may have a hermeneutic they prefer or at a different part of the journey (or even on a completely different journey).  The emergent thing does not really need an apologetic but it’s difficult for me to appreciate the “unbiblical” line.  For me, I have a higher and I’d like to argue healthier view of the Bible.  Thus, I do not appreciate the charge of being “unbiblical”.

For those of you further into the conversation, feel free to add/edit the list.

For those new, interested, curious, welcome, pull up a digital chair.

For those critical, have a nice day, Jesus loves me too (and so do we).

Filed Under: Christianity, emergent, Reflective Tagged With: ,

Reflecting on Driscoll's NY Times piece, Who Would Jesus Smack Down?

January 12, 2009 by 2 Comments

I read through the NY Times article “Who Would Jesus Smack Down?” about Mark Driscoll.  For those who don’t know, Mark is the pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA, he’s authored several books, speaks nationally, blogs, among other things.  For those who do know, I encourage you to read it anyway.  ;-)

There’s a lot about Driscoll that I agree with.  There’s even a lot I like.  I appreciate his passion, the desire to invest in others, and his love for the Scriptures.  Undoubtedly, he has done some good things for the Kingdom.  But in heaven, we will both sit embarrassed of our theology and this will be true of all of us.  But I have some glitches too.  One is that he’s overly critical of the emergent church conversation. Not to imply that he needs to become a poster child for it, nor am I asserting the only way to be a faithful Christ-follower today is to be a part of emergent, but I wish he had continued with the conversation instead of abandoning and criticizing it.  I also wish he was more gracious with who/what he disagreed with.  My hope is that he does not age into the common perception of a Pat Robertson.  He’s not that now, because he’s young and accepted as “cool”.

Perhaps my greatest issue with Mark is how he speaks about women.  I find it embarrassing.  As one who grew up with the teaching and example of a strong complementarian model, I find him to be “off the mark”.  Perhaps you may know more about this subject than I, are there varying degrees to this?   To me, his views sound like a delicate balance between chauvinism and slavery.  His is not the complementation position.  My favorite example is his message from July 11, 2005 on Genesis 39, Joseph and Potiphar’s wife (available on itunes podcasts and probably through the Mars Hill website).

Here’s another thing that always annoys me.  While I can nod my head in agreement that Jesus wasn’t only always snuggling with children and cuddling with lambs, he wasn’t Braveheart 24-7 either.  (By the way, Mel was balanced, fluent in French and gifted in brutally dismembering people).  I submit that Jesus is even more well-rounded.  But not only is Jesus perceived differently to many people but he was different to different people.  He’s a warrior and a poet.  He fought the Pharisees and cried with the mourners.  He blessed the meek but passionately overturned the corrupt money-changers.  We know all this, right? Agreed, Jesus wasn’t the “limp-wristed, wussy” that some have allegedly created but stressing the tattooed, demon bounty-hunting, “Roadhouse”  Jesus does not seem to be an accurate picture either. He’s not Fabio and not Stone Cold Steve Austin.

We are all different relative to our context.  We behave as fools in front of infants, saints in our churches, cheering fools at our ball games, and hope to be courageous in the face of danger.  Do not dismiss this as hypocrisy, but this is appropriate for humans for we are not one dimensional.  Can I assume that Driscoll makes an attempt to not use profanity in front of his children?

Concerning the article, it’s well written and am grateful it’s in the Times.  If this were my first time hearing of Driscoll, I’d be interested in learning more about him.  Some things are a little over-stated though.  It creates (unintentionally, I presume) this paradigm between seeker sensitive churches and churches like Mars Hill.  Sentences like these “They are not ‘the next big thing’ but a protest movement, defying an evangelical mainstream that, they believe, has gone soft on sin and has watered down the Gospel into a glorified self-help program.” imply that it’s one or the other.  Was this written by a modernist?  Is this meant to say if you are not part of Driscoll’s protest movement, you are soft on sin?  Again, probably not intentional but that’s what I am reading.

I encourage you to read the piece; I found this paragraph to be interesting is this paragraph.  Try to read through, the last line is brilliant:

“Mars Hill — with its conservative social teachings embedded in guitar solos and drum riffs, its megachurch presence in the heart of bohemian skepticism — thrives on paradox. Critics on the left and right alike predict that this delicate balance of opposites cannot last. Some are skeptical of a church so bent on staying perpetually “hip”: members have only recently begun to marry and have children, but surely those children will grow up, grow too cool for their cool church and rebel. Others say that Driscoll’s ego and taste for controversy will be Mars Hill’s Achilles’ heel. Lately he has made a concerted effort to tone down his language, and he insists that he has delegated much authority, but the heart of his message has not changed. Driscoll is still the one who gazes down upon Mars Hill’s seven congregations most Sundays, his sermons broadcast from the main campus to jumbo-size projection screens around the city. At one suburban campus that I visited, a huge yellow cross dominated center stage — until the projection screen unfurled and Driscoll’s face blocked the cross from view. Driscoll’s New Calvinism underscores a curious fact: the doctrine of total human depravity has always had a funny way of emboldening, rather than humbling, its adherents.”

While, I know I need to be careful of that too, the line made me laugh.

Filed Under: Christianity, emergent Tagged With:

You Saw It Here … Second Last

December 16, 2008 by Leave a Comment

Since it’s such great reading, only two posts.

From Brian McLaren’s blog:

Dr. David Gushee gets it right …

David Gushee is distinguished university professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University. I originally met him through Evangelical Environmental Network, and his anti-torture work, and ever since I always pay attention to what he writes. Here’s his recent editorial from the Associated Baptist Press (another great newsletter to subscribe to … here.)

Opinion: A doomed, reactionary church? By David Gushee

(ABP) — The act of reflecting this week, in class, on the development of Catholic social ethics resonated in an unexpected way with the situation facing Christians today. It became clearer than ever to me that when Christians become cultural reactionaries, they doom the church to irrelevance.

The Catholic story went like this: After the Reformation, for centuries the Catholic Church postured itself in a defensive crouch. It missed the opportunity to respond to the challenge posed by the Reformation. It resisted creative engagement with modern science [more …]

If you read it, I hope you finish. The last paragraph is excellent.

Also for the open-minded, check out the discussion on Adam Cleveland’s blog pomomusings entitled  “The Bible and Homosexuality:  Enough with the Bible Already”

Filed Under: Christianity Tagged With: ,

You Can't Really Ruin Christmas

December 11, 2008 by 1 Comment

Last night during at our Senior High Youth Group, we had some fruitful discussion regarding Christmas and the celebration of the holiday itself.  I showed them the Advent Conspiracy video and Shane Claiborne’s “Buy Nothing Day” video.  We talked about Santa, presents, and the arguments surrounding nativities on public spaces.  Very fruitful discussion, especially enjoyed the nativities one where we agreed that they shouldn’t be tacky.  

In my local town, we have a nativity scene on some public space that also shares a Hanukkah display.  I, for one, have no problem with it. Both are appropriate and I like driving past it.  I shared last night that there’s a house I saw recently that had the worst nativity set that I remember seeing.  It was so bad that I questioned if the house belonged to a Christian or a mean-spirited, non-believer.  The Joseph looked like a giant lego and the Mary was unsightly and the whole scene was just terrible.  In fact, it made me reconsider my faith and I’m fairly certain that if I were not a follower of Christ, I would have driven past it and it would have re-confirmed my doubts in Christianity.  In fact, if any hope, peace, love and beliefs of transcendence had crept into my unbelieving life, I think I would have had to gone some place and repented of these holy thoughts because I would have been at risk of believing.  It was so awful, that I think the plastic baby Jesus is trying to crawl out of it as you read this.  

I feel that some have made the nativity scene the official symbol of Christmas.  Although I appreciate symbols and love a beautiful nativity scene, to me, it does not symbolize Christmas for it waters down it’s meaning (again, I write “to me”).   

Speaking of symbols, I like Santa Claus.  I think he’s a fantastic figure. Not more important than Jesus mind you, but fantastic nonetheless.  Though I do believe that he is far too exalted, I do enjoy the myth that surrounds him.  I like Rudolph and the other reindeer, the North Pole and the elves and the toy-making and all that goes on with it.  I like the legend of St. Nicholas and I like buying Coca-Cola with Santa on the label. Why?  Nothing spiritual about it, I just like it.

Most days, I like the idea of gift-buying.  There is goodness in such tangible expressions of blessings (like coming to the Lord’s table and celebrating the Eucharist). Though it is easily overblown, I confess that I do enjoy buying something “extravagant” for a loved one every so often. What I don’t enjoy (nor understand) is the need to buy a sweater or gadget or mug for every one you know and I have never been able to comprehend how fruitcake ever came to be a suitable gift for anyone (my personal theory is that it was meant as a prank but someone decided to make some money off of it).

If you’ve been able to read this far, here’s where I am going with this.  I don’t believe that Jesus can be taken out of Christmas.  I do not buy into this helpless feeling that you can lose the meaning of Christmas (just like you can’t ruin a trip to Jerusalem just because those guys keep trying to sell you the Bibles with the wooden covers on them.  If you’ve been there, you know what I mean).

Forget about “seasons greetings versus happy holidays versus Merry Christmas”, Christmas only loses its magic if you were focused on the wrong parts of it to begin with.  You can’t ruin Christmas and if it is then it was our own fault for that would mean our hearts were not focused on worshipping Christ or celebrating the Incarnation of our Lord.

Filed Under: Christianity, Reflective, Student Ministry

Free "Sin Boldy" audio book for a limited time from Zondervan

December 6, 2008 by Leave a Comment

Becky Garrison (author of The New Atheist Crusaders … , Red and Blue God …) was kind enough to forward this to me.  Sin Boldy is a new book by Cathleen Falsani and for a limited time, Zondervan is giving away the audio version for free here.

For the past few years, I’ve really started to appreciate Zondervan.  It’s like they are learning lessons from the giant labels in the music industry that nickel and dime the public.  Maybe I’ll never buy this hardcover, but I may buy the next one.  Or maybe I’ll love the audio book so much that I’ll have to buy it for myself or as a gift for someone.  Or, maybe I’ll like this idea so much that I will go out and buy the book.  

I downloaded, listened to it and It worked for me.  Now I am sinning more boldly so it’s obviously a very practical and easily applicable book.  In case you might not know, the term “sin boldy” is from a letter Martin Luther wrote to Melanchthon in 1521.  

Here’s a review from Publisher’s Weekly (from Amazon.com):

From Publishers Weekly
Ranging from Chicago to Kenya, New Orleans to Ireland, Big Sky to Graceland, Falsani dons her investigative cap and scouts for grace. This religion columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times is a charming guide to places and people who reveal “grace when and where it happens.” Eschewing technical theological definitions, Falsani opts instead to tell how she has experienced grace. And we are vicarious travelers, seeing grace—”audacious, unwarranted, and unlimited”—through Falsani’s eyes. She marvels at the devotion of young people who crowd to the pope’s funeral and at the astoundingly independent women of Asembo Bay in Kenya. She wrestles with anger at a misogynist Tanzanian tour guide and anger at God when her mother and beloved cat face cancer. We traipse along with the author and eavesdrop on her conversations, both external and internal. The result is a pastiche of images meant collectively to reveal God’s grace. Though some may find the premise contrived, only a fierce cynic could fail to be drawn in to Falsani’s tales and candid reflections.

Filed Under: Christianity, Misc. Tagged With:

Reflecting on Competition, the (Christian) American Dream – Post 2

December 5, 2008 by 4 Comments

I received a couple of emails and encouraging words of the USA Today post and competition as being part of the problem with our teen-agers.  I’d like to go a little further (which usually only ruins a good point and becomes the blog equivalent of smashing your guitar at the end of the set).

What would it look like if we didn’t put as much pressure on our students?  Before I delve in, here are a few qualifiers:

I am not against competition as a whole, there is fruit in it. 

I believe in personal responsibility and am trying to avoid being overly sympathetic to teenagers and see them as victims.

But I do want “us” (“us” = all from parents, to youth workers, to teachers, to politicians to rock stars, to baristas…) to be faithful to our callings and responsibilities.

I see a couple of questions:  What would it look like if we didn’t put as much pressure on our students?   What kind of dream are we encouraging our students to pursue?  Are we actually leading them (and ourselves) to good, healthy, meaningful lives?  Oh, and how about one more – what is the meaning of life?

My main problem is the “dream” that we sell our kids.  As you know, it goes something like this:  If you get good grades, and are balanced with music, sports, theater, you can gain entrance into a good college, and if you do well there, you can land a great job, marry a great person, get a nice home, vacation wherever you want, and do whatever you want to do.” 
In our Christian homes, we add “and make a commitment to Jesus …” making it the Christian dream. 

I don’t know anyone, literally, who does whatever they want to do.  Even rock-stars don’t do whatever they want.  (Not even if it appears that way on stage).

The dream is a mirage and you can feel free to deconstruct it.  And while I value education and encourage our students to meet their potential, and think SAT prep classes are a good idea, and believe there are many lessons learned in sports, theater, writing in the school newspaper, editing the yearbook, and the numerous other extracurriculars, most of us know that there is more to life.

Though it’s preached in churches, it also makes it’s point in movies like, “Family Man”, “Braveheart”, and even in “Spiderman” (and many others).  And the point is life must have meaning.

If I can transition from our students to “us” as a whole, I’d like to wind down to some kind of conclusion.    Though I believe the aforementioned pursuits and extracurriculars are worthy, important, necessary but only to an extent.  I value education but I also value love. I love athletics but also need the pursuit of peace.  I enjoy being entertained but desire the call to justice. 

Of course, being a youth pastor, I am expected to finish this with a commercial justifying the existence of my position and work.  Don’t fault me too much, I do believe in what I do. 

But this post isn’t intended to convert anyone.  This being a post on the internet, I do not want to presuppose my faith and values on you.  But can we agree that life must have meaning and that our world would be better if we encouraged ourselves and those that come after us to pursue a better dream?  I know as this conversation expands we would have different ideas of that dream and this is among the reasons why we have millions of books, but can we at least agree that the present dream is flawed?

Filed Under: Christianity, Reflective, Student Ministry

Rick Warren Interview – "After the Aloha Shirts"

November 25, 2008 by 3 Comments

After the Aloha Shirts an interview with Rick Warren by Timothy C. Morgan of Christianity Today.

This is old to those of you who see everything on the internet the moment it hits.  But I just finally got around to reading this (twice) and really appreciated it.  

Part of me wants Rick Warren to go further and another part of me is thrilled that he’s gone this far.  Many pay attention to him and for those who are reluctant to new ideas and changes, he is among their very much needed leaders.  

Here are a couple exerts, hope you read the rest:

“The “p” in PEACE 2.0, “Promoting reconciliation,” has replaced “Planting churches.” Why did you make this change?

Two years ago, I did this 46,000-mile trip in 45 days. We literally went around the world. [What] I saw in every single country were conflict and broken relationships. In the Philippines it was between the two major evangelical networks. In Seoul it was between the charismatics and the Presbyterians. In the Middle East it was between Arab and Jew. In Rwanda it was between Hutu and Tutsi. Everywhere I went there were broken relationships. Everywhere we went, we had to be bridge builders, moderators, and peacemakers. Get right with God and get right with each other.

When I looked at the PEACE Plan, church planting was the only [point] that had a prescribed method. We are still doing church planting, but now we put it under partnerships with the local church. We don’t expect government and business, the other two legs of the stool, to do church planting. But there are biblical principles of reconciliation that apply to everybody. If you listen before you speak, you are going to have better relationships, whether you are a believer or not.

What’s the new role for professionals under PEACE 2.0?

The role of professionals is to train amateurs. When a dentist says, “I’d like to go to Latin America and pull teeth,” that’s great. That’s addition. I’d like him to go to Latin America and train people how to pull teeth. It’s not just addition—it becomes multiplication. In the Great Commission, Jesus says, “And teach them to do all things I’ve commanded you.” He doesn’t say, “Do it for them.” He says, “Teach them to do.” PEACE is all about teaching them to do.

There are three key words in 2.0: Scalable. Sustainable. Reproducible. We never sacrifice sustainability or reproducibility or scalability for speed. The faster way to do it is always to do it yourself.

Is the career missionary obsolete?

We need far more missionaries than we have right now. What we need is in addition to that. We need an amateur movement out of love. We have to remember that in the first 300 years of the church, it was pretty much all amateurs. Paul and Barnabas were sent out by a church. It was local churches sending out their people to go around the world. My prayer is that we will work hand in hand. The expertise of missionaries can be used and multiplied.

There are more than 1 billion Roman Catholics and Orthodox believers. Where do they fit in?

We need to mobilize a billion Catholics and Orthodox [believers]. I’m not really that interested in interfaith dialogue. I am interested in interfaith projects. Let’s do something together. You are probably not going to change your doctrinal distinctives, and I’m probably not going to change my doctrinal distinctives. We have different beliefs. But the fact is, we do serve the same Lord. Let’s work on the things we can agree on.”

Filed Under: Christianity

Karl Giberson's Interview with Skeptic's Michael Shermer

November 20, 2008 by 1 Comment

This past Monday night my friend Tim and I went to another event put on by the Templeton Foundation. This was part of the Book Forum Series and it featured Karl Giberson’s Saving Darwin: How to Be a Christian and Believe in Evolution. The night was centered on Giberson being interviewed by Skeptic magazine editor, Michael Shermer.  It took place at the Harvard Club in Manhatten and it had good food and wine, friendly people – well worth the effort of driving into the city. 

Part of Karl’s story is that he approached this subject coming from a fundamentalist background and while in college starting appreciating some of the elements of science and fell in love with a lot of Darwin and other evolutionary ideas.  Though you may have heard that part of the story before (it could even be yours), he adds in his book that growing up, his hero was the early earther, creation apologist Henry Morris.  I found that to be interesting.

Shermer and Giberson had a very polite and enjoyable conversation.  I’m not sure if it actually ever got too awkward and I credit Shermer for creating a positive mood.  In fact, I thought there were several moments were he could have debated but his role was to interview and I appreciated the level of restraint he demonstrated. 

So can you be a Christian and believe in evolution (the macro)? Giberson insists that you can.  He also said that the creationist tends to turn the Genesis account into a proto-science (and it’s not meant to be scientific).  When we compare against the theory of evolution we rob ourselves from the goodness of the other stories.  Further if we get distracted by the first couple chapters in Genesis, we miss too much.

As he was talking about the origins of fundamentalism he mentioned that creationism wasn’t considered a fundamental back in the early part of the 20th century. Found that also to be intriguing.

In short, Shermer kept on a line of questions that more or less asked, then why continue be a Christian.  He even questioned his motivation by saying, “You’re not pretending to believe this to make life easier for  yourself …. are you?”

Giberson did not give any overly dramatic answers.  I would tell you that he felt very comfortable and confident in his reconciling of faith and science.  He mentioned a couple times in various contexts that he maintains in the existence of God, that Christianity offers a richer worldview, that he believed in the resurrection and so on.  I also appreciated that he said that we believe “loads and loads” of things that step outside science.  He didn’t get into the details as the conversation kept moving but as much as I appreciate science as well, I thought that was a friendly reminder.

One last thing that got me thinking was his discussion on the education that Christian congregations give to their children.  As a youth pastor, this is something that I have thought about over and over not only in the teenage years but in those formative children’s years.  I plan on doing some reflection on this point in particular. 

In not wanting to make this too long of a post, I remember reading a book (by a Christian author) of some of the beautiful things that Darwin said and his inner conflicts and struggles.  In brief, too many Christians portray him as a Herod and that it is a mistake.

After some questions and answers, there was a gentlemen (I believe from the museum of science) who closed the night with some great Darwin quotes.  So good, they could probably be quoted from the pulpits if we left the name off or credited to C.S. Lewis.

I encourage you to read the book.  I skimmed most of it and plan on giving it more attention.  It’s not really an apologetic on evolution or Christianity but I think it’s serves as a great first step to those of us interested in this conversation.

Filed Under: Christianity, Conferences/Events Tagged With: ,

Tony Jones at Youth Specialties – General Session – 11.2.08

November 7, 2008 by 5 Comments

First, it’s about time Tony speaks at the General Session at YS’s National Youth Workers Convention.  Because the world tends to revolve around me, I did literally write in last year’s eval that Tony should be a given  a general session.  (I’m sure YS would have come up with this had I not written that since I’m pretty sure those evals head straight for recycling but it’s a great ploy in making attendees feel heard – lol.)

After a warm introduction from Marko, there was the Church Basement Road Show thing with Doug Pagitt and Mark Scadrette (who makes a hilarious preacher-type and in real life is the author of Soul Graffiti – Making a Life in the Way of Jesus).  After that, Tony began speaking …. lol– just kidding.  I, for one enjoyed the CBRS and couldn’t stop laughing, especially at Doug.  How one of the most brilliant minds that you’ll ever meet got roped into this is either a great sign of friendship or there is some Josey-Bass statistic out there that has an irrefutable link to dressing up like a 20th century traveling southern evangelist and selling thousands of copies of A Christianity Worth Believing. 

On Tony’s new belief.net blog, he wrote that he was afraid that some people didn’t get it. He and his friends are in good company for a lot of people didn’t understand the parables of Jesus and a lot of men don’t understand women and a lot of us don’t understand Sigur Rios but love them all anyway.  Perhaps some didn’t get it but for all the times I’ve had to listen to a Josh McDowell type, I appreciate YS considering those like me. 

After the Tony & Trucker Frank clip (which is brilliant), Tony shared a little about his journey, his faith and the nature of truth.  If you know Tony, you know that he’s well-educated, brilliant, and never got the memo that  you don’t have to talk to people after you speak.  He probably doesn’t know that because he was a youth pastor for 20 years (source: Marko) and as many of you know, after you just spent 25 minutes sharing the most profound truth humankind has ever known, you are talking to 10th graders about LeBron, Brittany, and the big Algebra test.   Seriously, Tony as well as many of his friends, are among the most accessible to have conversation with you.

Tony talked about his life starting in his senior year of  high school about a letter that his youth pastor made him write to himself that was sent during his freshmen year at Dartmouth  It was a helpful reminder of the presence of Christ in his life.  He shared about his college bible study experience (this story is in his excellent book, The New Christians – you should read it), his Fuller Seminary experience, his studies in philosophy and learning how to understand the great German theologians … in German.  This story transitioned into the importance of living out the Gospel relationally while he lived in a poor part of South Dakota in the Indian reservations.  If there’s something wrong with Tony, it’s that he speaks better of his time living in South Dakota then he does about his experience in New Jersey (he studied at Princeton Theological Seminary and is currently finishing up his doctorate).

Then the scary part, that wasn’t that scary … unless you are addicted to you pre-conceived notions and couldn’t wait to pick on something.  Tony talked about the nature of truth.  What he said was extremely appropriate for a YS General Session and from my seat, I hoped it stirred people’s appetites.  He said that truth walked with Adam & Eve, wrestled with Jacob, was in a cloud leading the Israelites and that truth was born as a man and had foot fungus and bowel movements and about the profound nature of Christ.  “It’s truth with dirt under its fingerails.  That’s our truth.”  

Reminding everyone that it we couldn’t reduce it all to passages or theologies. It was almost a Pauline moment, “If anyone has right to boast …”.  He asked us youthworkers to remember that it’s worth being locked in a YMCA with junior highers, and be underpaid, overworked, and unappreciated.   But it was well worth it to “bask in the knowledge” share the truth with our young people. 

I am a fan and a friend of Tony and as a brother in the Lord was proud of his time.  Toward the end of 2003, it was books like Postmodern Youth Ministry and McLaren’s New Kind of Christians that w

ere very helpful for me like many others.   It would be typical to end the story that people rushed the stage for his blessing upon them but he ended up announcing that he was going to play the Jesus Road show song to open up the Crowder set which launched everyone out of their seats to the main stage.  So typical of Christians to rush past the challenging stuff to get to the good and comfortable stuff (I love Crowder too, don’t miss my point).

For many this was a great starting point.  And For people like me who are barely two steps ahead in this part of the journey, it was more than a good moment but a necessary one. I need to see organizations like YS encourage this part of the conversation.  I don’t need everyone to be emergent.  Not needed at all but what I would appreciate is that before people attack the conversation and the people that are having the conversation to know the conversation and to participate in it.

 

Filed Under: Christianity, Conferences/Events, emergent, Reflective, Student Ministry Tagged With:

Reflecting on EDC Dave Kinnaman's Presentation – Notes and Thoughts – Post 4

October 26, 2008 by 1 Comment
Last week I had posted a little from the Eastern District Conference.  Here are some of my notes from Dave’s presentation.  I encourage to get a copy.  Admittedly the research gets kinda heavy.  Dave apparently knew that and perhaps this is the reason he concludes each chapter with a vignette that illustrates the point.  But this is content that we as church leaders, vocational and lay, should not only have accessible but be working on understanding.  As in, answering how did we get here?

Impressions non-Christians between the ages of 16-29 have of Christians:

  • Judgmental – 87%
  • anti-homosexual – 91% 
  • hypocritical – 80%
  • too political 75%
  • sheltered – 78%
  • proselytizers – 70%

– This is our brand image in the market place

– What I am not suggesting is that we take a poll and roll out a religion that people want.  

– we know that we will be persecuted for our faith.

– Indeed we need to address sin.

  •  What young Christians and non-Christians said

– present day Christianity is no longer like Jesus intended

– it’s a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy (loved that part)

– This is the primary conception that people have. 

  • Some see the Church as “ASSAULT” and “LITE” as opposed to “Salt” and “Light” 
  • America may be a missions field but it’s actually a field of different missions
  • Opportunities in the Post Christian Culture

– opportunity to change the culture war backlash (and the political backlash often associated)

– we can say this is what true discipleship looks like.

– social justice opportunities.  Many younger generations are  

   very interested in serving.  

  • A Healthier global awareness of leadership
  • Confront our Hyper Individualism
  • Pluralistic Culture 

 work alongside people of other faiths to help our cities

     – Desire for transparency 

– project-focused churches

– our agenda becomes (not to get you on our campus) but how can we benefit/serve the community.

     – Search for Purpose

– empowering students to pursue their vocations

Spiritual entrepreneurs

   – Chuck Colson – agent of God’s common grace …

   – Mike Foster – porn talk

   – Junky Car Club – living with less so others can have more

   – Catherine Rohr – coaches prisoners to develop business plans

   – Most prisoners are the best entrepreneurs just bad guidance

   – Jamie Twarkowski – to write love on her arms

   – Tim McMahaon – started a Mormon blog

   – to talk about Mormonism, beliefs, non-beliefs, etc.

   – Common Good – Rescuers – Conversational –  Imago Dei

– It’s as much a problem to confront our self-righteousness as it is to confront unrighteous.  

– Perhaps our greatest problem is due to how our superficiality has shaped us as the Church.

* I take my share of responsibility in all of this.  My heart is grieved by some of my words, actions, attitudes, etc.  And these are just the things that I know about.  Indeed I have repented (and still in the process of in certain aspects) of these moments but I regret the damage I’ve caused to the Church/Body/Christ’s followers.  

I know many were touched by the scene in Blue Like Jazz when Don and his friends set up a reverse confession booth.  When someone entered, they as Christians apologized for, in short, not living up to the calling the Church has received.  There have been many moments prior to and since that have had a similar spirit.  I mention this, not because I think this is reverse confession booth idea is a strategy that needs to be immediately employed, but rather to give an easy example of Christians taking responsibility.  

It’s sentences like you just read that get me in trouble.  But I cannot delete it or edit further but here is a disclaimer.  I am not stating that all the world’s problems are exclusively due to the Church’s failure(s).  That would be among our most arrogant assumptions.  We simply do not have the power to do that.  Again, where we are failing is in not living up to our calling and failing to live the Gospel and being faithful disciples making the most of the opportunities given before us.

Certainly, the Church has taken the initiative on many great things and God has used us in many beautiful ways and at times, in spite of ourselves.  We have the potential to do so much more, if we would allow the Lord to be at work in us.  Unfortunately, it will be difficult and it will hurt.  But thankfully, it will glorify the Lord and build the Kingdom.

Filed Under: Christianity, Conferences/Events, Reflective Tagged With: ,